Endlers Guppies with Cherry Shrimp?

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Jamie

So, I have a four year old ten gallon, VERY densely planted tank, very well established...with about 18 cherry shrimp. It's cycled obviously, I check the stats every four days or so with the API Master Freshwater Testing kit, so I know it's stable and has been for a couple years(stats are: PH: 7.2, GH from water company is 10, can't find the test solution for it myself, I assume it's lower in my tank by maybe a point or two since I have extreme planting and driftwood, sand substrate. Ammonia, nitrites and nitrates are zero).

My questions:
Can I have Endlers Livebearers(not the guppy mixes), in there with them? I was thinking five. I know they can fit in ten gallon tanks in a small, proper group with good planting and used to have guppies in there with the shrimp for about six months before moving them to a larger tank. They seemed too big, I want something smaller than can fit happily. The parameters stayed stable and the tank looked good with them, but they got too big. lol

Yes, I know they'll breed, I have nursery tanks that are 20 and 30 gallons should I get females and a male. I know it should be AT LEAST a 3-1 ratio, but I like having at least four per male.(I have three twenties and a thirty gallon nursery tank, so I have room!).

I haven't had Endlers before. Only guppies or mixes so I don't have a great deal of knowledge on them. I was wondering if they would actually fare well in a ten gallon with small shrimp like that, or if they'd be a problem to them or want more space, perhaps a twenty gallon?

Are my stats ok for them?

Would they be ok on the same diet I feed my other guppies and livebearers(mostly plant matter foods like blanched green beans, spinach, romaine lettuce, the occasional skinned cooked pea or cucumber, algae wafers. Protein foods are fed two or three times per week, things like mysis, brine shrimp, glassworms most often, occasionally daphnia which is kinda messy and only given twice a month or so, blood worms maybe once per month since I know they can cause issues if fed other than a rare treat. All foods are frozen foods, no freeze-dried and no live since I don't have a good provider and don't breed them. Often I also give Emerald Entree and pick out the worms)?


I'm pretty well off on fish care and knowledge, I've been keeping and breeding fish since I was about 4-5 years old and learning where I can on what I have or plan to get, that's a bit over twenty years. But I get cautious when doing something new, and I've never had pure Endlers before. They're very hard to get here, but I've recently found a nice provider for them, mostly they're the blue and green or red or yellow ones. lol
So all info on them is more than welcome! Recommended space, numbers, substrate, food, tankmates...I intend to get some, be it for this tank or for one of my others that wants to be stocked and is ready. I'd like some fish in my ten though, even with almost two dozen shrimp it seems kinda empty...My empty tanks are well established tanks used as nurseries, but currently have nothing in them. Fully cycled and maintained, all over two years old but one of the twenties which is six months. They all have gravel substrate and are lighter on the plants though.

This is my tank taken four days ago, the female swordtail is no longer in there, she was there for two days because she had a blockage(bloodworms are off the menu, gave them their once a month treat and she couldn't poop for two days) and needed a pea without it being stolen by others. She looks so out of place. x.x She's back in her 55 gallon now. lol Would this be sufficient for five Endlers? AH! I get so flustered when I try new fish! ^__^

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z19/Sylverclaws/Shrimp%20Tank/001_zpscf913555.jpg

This is my twenty gallon from about three months ago I think, if this would be more sufficient, though I'd rather have something in my ten with the shrimp to make it look like more than just...plants and the occasional red critter swimming by or hanging on the glass(they are lovely, but when they're hiding after shedding or just because they can, it looks so empty!). There are more plants now and no block of wood or babies in it, hasn't had babies in it for two weeks or so, I still test the water and do maintenance:
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z19/Sylverclaws/Baby%20fish/Nursery%20Tank/037_zps0d6723b1.jpg

Answer
Your Endler's - Poecilia wingii [or Poecilia (Acanthophacelus) wingei] according to some - would do fine in either tank. I am really cheered by the fact that you are still testing for ammonia, nitrites & nitrates. Most of us forget (at least some of the time) that when a fish sneaks off & dies, we over feed & don't get around to gravel vacuuming up the left-overs or we add new fish, that the equilibrium established by that initial cycling of the tank, as been knocked out of kilter or maybe has just gradually slid off our goal of great water quality. Too many aquarists also forget that nitrates, the end product of most filtration systems, doesn't just go away.

http://www.oscarfish.com/article-home/water/79-is-nitrate-toxic-a-study-of-nitrate-toxicity.html

When an established tank is empty, the production of ammonia almost ceases. The colonies of beneficial bacteria also back off. However some recent research suggests that they may go dormant rather than dying all off. You indeed probably can add Endler's & shrimp without too much problem. Just continue to monitor the water quality - more for the shrimp.

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=4780&utm_source=PFK_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=February_10_2012&utm_term=Think_you_know_filter_bacteria?_Dream_on…&utm_content=html

One small caveat about your well planted tank is a bit of semantics, but a densely planted tank is sometimes defined by the real plant & aquatic gardening fanatics as having over 80% of the substrate planted. Few of us can do that. Look here for really well planted works of art. (Maybe when I grow up...)

http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/

As you work with that tank I'm sure you will move the now larger sword plant to the middle back & put taller plants stage left & right. Here are a few suggestions (from my modest experience) for additional plants that would serve the Endler's & shrimp well:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AvwloaLnc1jRX48nmVJW5jLty6IX;_ylv=3?qid=20130828105109AA9R8yw

Large female to male ratios are not so important with the P. wingii as with guppies. Their males are no where as aggressive in forcing the females to mate. Indeed one of the characteristics the describers mentioned in their description is that the males were gentle towards the females & actually escorted them in their wandering in a small school. (Behavioral considerations are unusual in scientific descriptions. Perhaps those factors should be considered more.)

As for the shrimp, if they can nibble your highly vegetable diet, that is great. A few crushed veggie flakes are good, maybe after the fish have pigged out on whatever & leaves them some flakes. Indeed there seems to be some evidence that a high animal protein diet can cause potentially fatal trouble when they molt to a new outside exoskeleton..

Years ago we picked up our first Endler's (the old peacock strain trace-able back to Dr Endler about 1980). I kept my fish room cool at the time & was the only member is the club whose Endler's hadn't dropped. As spring warmed up the outside, the fish room also warmed. In May they cut loose as temps reached 76-77 F. I now understand Jenny Eckstein's characterizing them as the "Endless Livebearer." We have fixed a gold strain & pull albinos from them occasionally.

http://www.oocities.org/endlers_livebearer/peacock.html

Most of our aquarium fishes are more or less carnivorous mini-predators. You are undoubtedly familiar with the old saw "If a fish can fit into the mouth of another a fish, it will." That applies to small livebearers & baby shrimp too. If you keep that swordtail or the Endler's with the shrimp, unless there is a huge wad of Java moss, there will be no baby cherry shrimp.

You have extra tanks. The cherry shrimp "like" cooler water. If you were to put several cherry shrimp in an unheated 15-gallon on the lower of an over-under stand & gave them the same care as you give your other fish, you could have a steady supply of young adult shrimp.

Hope some tidbit here is of use. Good luck (which you seem to be encouraging through your care)!

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